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What Doesn’t Kill Us…

A Conversation With
Scott Carney

Scott Carney, author of the provocatively titled What Doesn’t Kill Us: How Freezing Water, Extreme Altitude, and Environmental Conditioning Will Renew Our Lost Evolutionary Strength was kind enough to have a lengthy conversation regarding aspects of his book and his thoughts on similar subjects since its publication.

I read Scott’s book upon its publication over a year ago and I’ll admit that I was initially leery. Was this going to be yet another tome with overreaching and unsubstantiated claims telling us to “train like this to be a bullet-proof superman!”?

Refreshingly, no.

Meet Scott Carney

Scott is an author, anthropologist, and skeptic, all of which are evident in one of his previous works titled The Enlightenment Trap (later released under the title A Death On Diamond Mountain) where he ably dissects a fatal case of pseudo-religious charlatanry. His skeptical credentials brought me to the book and personal immersion admirably kept me there.

It is one thing to sit and snipe from the sidelines, but being an anthropologist, Scott placed himself squarely in the center of the situations he was examining and as a result got a first-hand account of the tragic events that transpired on Diamond Mountain.

What Doesn’t Kill Us

In a nutshell, the premise of his most recent book is not so much “how to train to reclaim your potential.” Honestly, we’ve got enough unsourced and unjustified claims on how to accomplish such a thing running wild in the world and Scott makes no such argument. Instead, the premise of the book is that the reader should take their physical training to natural environments and it gives solid, well-founded reasons as to why.

I’ll allow Scott to explain the general idea behind this in his own words:

Weak circulatory muscles are a side effect of living in a very narrow band of temperature variation. The vast majority of humanity today—the entire population that spends the bulk of its time indoors and/or whose only experience when it gets too cold or too hot is wearing state-of-the-art outdoor gear—never exercises this critical system of their body.

Even people who appear physically fit with lean muscles and chiseled abs might be secretly hiding weak circulatory muscles, and the stakes are huge. In the long run, circulatory diseases contribute to almost 30 percent of the world’s mortality.

Breaking It Down

As we might imagine, this narrow band of comfort is relatively new to humanity, but even in times-past when the only climate control humans had at their disposal was a good fire, there was a long and wide tradition of myriad cultures actively engaging in cold and hot acculturation.

Scott provides more than a few examples and they call to mind the observations of a scientific icon— Charles Darwin. This is Darwin filtered through the pen of Henry David Thoreau within the pages of Walden:

Darwin, the naturalist, says of the inhabitants of Tierra del Fuego, that while his own party, who were well clothed and sitting close to the fire, were far from too warm, these naked savages, who were farther off, were observed to his great surprise, ‘to be streaming with perspiration at undergoing such a roasting.’ So, we are told, the New Hollander goes naked with impunity, while the European shivers in his clothes. Is it impossible to combine the hardiness of these savages with the intellectualness of the civilized man?

This observation matches Scott’s exploration. Thoreau also sums up the bifurcated stance that man is a modern cultural creature, but he is physiologically indistinguishable from the natives observed by Darwin:

For the improvements of ages have had but little influence on the essential laws of man’s existence; as our skeletons, probably, are not to be distinguished from those of our ancestors.

This return to prior conditions, or, at least embracing of some prior conditions, is also echoed in the advice of renowned scholar Nassim Nicholas Taleb when he urges people to move away from gym equipment, get outdoors, lift unwieldy objects, and run on uneven terrain, saying, “nature is not smooth.”

Introducing the Iceman

Scott’s entry point into the world of environmental training came through the idiosyncratic Wim Hof, also known as “the Iceman.” Wim’s feats and exploits in the extreme temperatures and altitudes are well-known, and it was under his tutelage that Scott saw first-hand the efficacy of this type of training.

But Scott doesn’t simply accept Wim’s word as gospel, nor does he simply scoff. He puts his money where his mouth is and joins Wim and crew for stripped-down exploits in snow-covered terrain, ice baths, and in grueling paces atop Mount Kilimanjaro without the aid of oxygen or what many of us would call sensible clothing.

The Results Spoke
For Themselves

Scott finds that there is indeed a method to Wim’s madness—a method that can be taught, learned, and used in day-to-day life.

Being a good skeptic, he doesn’t simply give us Wim’s side of things and call it a day. He tests Wim’s claims further, meeting with scientists who study human responses to extreme conditions and ventured with other self-experimenters who used their own bodies as laboratories.

Scott is able to effectively walk us through the “here’s how to do it” aspects of such training, but I don’t want to give any of that away here as the curious among us should do as Scott did—put their money where their mouths are and put these methods to the test while also financially supporting the great work Scott has done by purchasing his books.

The Take Away

What can be offered is this: We can be hotter than we think, we can be colder than we think, and we can thrive under such conditions.

The process Scott describes is similar to beginning a running program. Initially, a trot around the block may be tiring, but with a little effort and discipline, you’re having thoughts of running a 5K, and after a while that initial trot around the block seems like a leisurely walk in the park. And after running a 5K or two, some of us might even set our sights on tackling a marathon, and so on and so forth.

Environmental training is no different. Small exposures to this type of training can enhance our standard existence, just like running can make climbing the stairs at work easier. In the same vein, scheduled exposure to the cold can make what you might currently consider to be chilly weather not only bearable, but perhaps even a bit closer to the tropical heat the Tierra del Fuego natives felt that they were experiencing at that campfire all those years ago.

Wisdom From the Iceman

Much of the ballyhoo around Wim’s feats are because of the extremes he is willing to undergo—swimming beneath river ice, extended stays in ice baths, etc. But Scott emphasizes that such wild extremes are not necessary to gain the benefits of the environmental training method.

Wim himself explains in his TED Talk that he is an extreme athlete and that he does these extreme feats because it is just who he is. In our running analogy he is an ultra-marathoner. When someone first begins a running program, no one in their right mind would tell them that they have to run an ultra-marathon to gain the full benefits of running.

The same goes for environmental training. We don’t need to trek across Antarctica naked to see the benefits of such a method. A regularly scheduled cold shower may be quite enough for our “5K” lives.

Does Scott Still Practice
Environmental Training?

When asked if he still used the Wim Hof method, Carney said that he undoubtedly did, but that he focused more on the breathing exercises it covered, such as “the Wedge” (more on “the Wedge” in Scott’s next book). He still uses the cold training occasionally, but he has found that for his own practice the breathing method (which is covered in great length in this book) is where the rubber meets the road.

A Mistake You Should Avoid

Scott stresses that the breathing exercises are more internal processes than athletic feats. That is to say, that because some are able to acquire a lengthy breath-hold using these techniques, that a longer breath-hold can become the primary focus for some. Scott urges us to avoid falling into the subtle trap of mistaking the terrestrial breath-hold as being practical for aquatic use. Scott, Wim, and free-divers will all tell you to NOT USE THIS METHOD FOR SWIMMING.

The breathing exercises here are not about stopwatch bragging rights, but as an adjunct to everyday health. Scott’s book advocates for more direct contact with the world, and the best way to accomplish this is to better understand our own physiology.

I’ll allow Scott to close with this provocative observation:

Even though our nervous systems crave connection to the world they evolved in, the tendency in the modern era is to think of humanity as fundamentally different than everything else. We insist on being bound by our bodies, our property, our kinship network, and our social media profiles; and so we hold the rest of the planet at arm’s length.

Thanks for the conversation and provocative read, Scott!

What do you think? Let me know by leaving your thoughts in the comments section down below!

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41 thoughts on “What Doesn’t Kill Us…”

  1. Interesting Mark. I just might have to pick up that book. I don’t know why Of Wolf and Man by Metallica popped into my head after reading this article. That’s about werewolves. Weird huh?

    Reply

  4. Interesting research. I know that humans are able to accomplish some pretty absurd things when the need arises, but why would one want to purposefully put oneself in that situation regularly? If you plan to trek the artic with nothing on maybe…

    Also, I’m skeptical of the premise behind the studies. But that’s another discussion, one that goes deeper than just the physical. This isn’t the place for it, but I’d encourage you to think critically, and not just accept everything you hear.

    Reply

  14. Are you the former 5thSFGp(Abn) person who served in ‘Nam I saw a reference to on this site?
    My service there:

    ’66-‘67.5 An Khe, Qui Nhon, Nha Trang, Can Tho — 5th Gp

    ’69-’70 Civil Operations and Rural Development Support — II CTZ

    Reply

  16. Very interesting!! I practice Hara breath techniques and Tai-Chi solely for health. Yet,I’m still prone to cold/flu? Adding cold shower to my routine,will be beneficial to keeping cold/flu,a thing of the past. Thanx!! Now I have a need to read. (We are more than what we have become).

    Reply

  22. Excellent, thought provoking article.. will I buy the book, yes I believe I will, but not for my own future training.. I seriously injured my back by over training running stairs to exhaustion with a fifty pound backpack..it was my poor training methods (and perhaps pre existing spinal issues) that have caused years of problems.. a cold shower sounds much wiser.. and quite right, the world is not flat..

    Reply

  23. Bob,
    Thank you again for sending me my free Combat self defense videos I had them on my old Cellphone which was anI Phone and I had trouble opening them up because the soft eared version was too old .So I I purchased a Samsung Galaxy phone I tried to open them up they open up great.

    Reply

  26. Thanks, this is very informative. I am taking it – might save my life or that of someone else I might be able to assist in an emergency.

    Reply

  27. l understand and believe in what you say. l used to drive a bulldozer out in the cold and l was cold all day. At night in my home l was roasting. Then in the hot weather l could stand the heat because it was so hot on the dozer. Also l did heavy work, it’s called for with bulldozing. Since l have not been doing this work l got hurt lifting what l used to do all the time. Your inner core gets out of shape with not being challenged. Today with the moral changes in society l think the rise of oral sex is making children sick, almost killing them and l think you should address these facts. Never before have we had so many children with learning problems and l think, rightly or wrongly, that these innocent children, and older adults with no immunity are being harmed by these germs. If children get sick with problems never before seen in families this cause should be addressed. The natives in Canada were hearty but they died in droves from measles, mumps, flu etc etc. because they had no immunity. l hope you take these challenges to heart. Society has changed and these new problems need to be dealt with. Our heath care system is being hard hit because of these new problems. Thank you for your article. It is very good but it does not go far enough for today’s problems.

    Reply

  28. l hope you don’t mind but l would like to add one more bit of information. A dentist told me he went to a seminar and one of the speakers said babies are not born with tooth decay germs, they are given these germs by adults kissing them. He said we cannot very well tell grandparents not to kiss their grandchildren but this is how tooth decay gets to children. l hope l have made a point.

    Reply

  30. We loose brown fat as we age. Brown fat burns white fat to keep you warm. It would be interesting to see if cold training reverses brown fat losses. Brown fat also keeps you lean.

    Reply

  31. I remember going to the beach at 60 degrees and going swimming in Michigan as a kid. Sadly, living in Florida now, at 60 F, I’m in long johns and goose down. Thanks for the wake-up call.

    Reply

  32. I received this email literally upon getting
    Finished with a ten minute cold shower.
    I’ve been doing cold exposure since early
    May, it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done for myself..
    I’m just now beginning to learn some of
    what the cold is trying to teach me.
    The goal when I’m in a cold shower is to
    control my shiver response. It takes about 20 minutes for the real effects to occur.
    As you get colder you have to get into a deeper and deeper state of relaxation in order to keep control. This creates sort of
    a “bio feedback” loop. The deeper you get in the more control you have. You have to
    Stay in this state even after you get out for awhile, until you warm up.
    I’m thinking eventually I’ll be able to get into
    this state “at will”, in response to any kind of stressor.
    Thanks for the email. Stay cool (pun intended) lol

    Reply

  33. Very interesting synopsis, extreme training is where our potential is pushed, why not extreme conditioning of our “inner” selves, ie our health. Yes the fittest is the survivor. Well put…

    Reply

  34. Hu. As a indigenous Australia I found this very helpful and have decided to do this. I unlike a lot of other humans have a close connection with nature and animals particularly dingoes and dogs. I will be trying these methods out when I next go long grass. Also I would like to thank Bob for teaching me how to become better at fighting. While I don’t buy the hotlist items(mostly because I live in Australia and not America) I an still happy that you consider me. All the best
    Ness

    Reply

  36. I very much like philosophy on life.By pushing boundaries within our body, it allows our whole internal system to be stronger and to be able to adapt stresses better

    Reply

  37. A very good read about our bodies adapting to the extreme. Breathing is key. I’m very lonely right now & have been a long time. But ripping loud farts is my hobby and it can bring your spirits up in any situation.

    Reply

  38. As I get older I’ve found myself saying I don’t mind the cold if I’m prepared for it. I don’t know how to completely do this. I need health training and mental training. I’m interested in this.

    Reply

  40. It is important to be able to deal with environment in all seasons and extreme cold to me is one of the worst and most important for me to master.

    Reply

  41. I appreciate that you take the time to teach and encourage learning. Would have been great training going through BUDS.

    Reply